David Frankfurter ([info]dfrankfurter) wrote,

What makes you understand that you have the right to think that way?

Israel's security fence has dropped from the news lately. French Foreign Minister Philippe Douste-Blazy's recent declaration somewhat explains the loss of interest. “I have significantly evolved on the matter of the separation fence. Although the wall was a moral and ethical problem for me, when I realised terror attacks were reduced by 80 percent in the areas where the wall was erected, I understood I didn’t have the right to think that way,” said Douste-Blazy. 

How does it work? By making it harder to cross from the Palestinian Authority areas into Israel, smuggling is reduced, with traffic channelled through monitored border crossing points. Before the fence was erected, Israeli security managed to prevent around 30% of attempted terrorist attacks. Today, the number is closer to 95%.  Waroud KasemA case study is young 20 year old Israeli Arab Warud Qasem (pictured). Qasem worked in our local Ra'anana supermarket as a cashier. Her cousin was an illegal Palestinian worker in Ra'anana's Spaghettim restaurant. Three months ago, she joined Fatah's Al-Aksa Martyrs Brigades. [You will recall that Al-Aksa is an official organ of Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas' Fatah party, and that many of its active terrorists received salaries and benefits from internationally funded Palestinian Authority budgets.] Qasem was able to use her citizenship and familiarity with Israel to help weapons smuggling and to pinpoint terror targets. She recruited her cousin in a plan to plant a bomb in the Spaghettim Restaurant. But, asked to smuggle the 7 kilogram bomb into Israel in her car (which has Israeli license plates) she demurred, because the border police were likely to catch her. The bomb was driven around the West Bank, searching for a way around the fence into Israel, when Qasem was arrested with it in her possession. She is now facing charges - our town's citizens having been saved from attack by the security fence and the ever alert Israeli security services. 

Of course, the intrepid Kofi Annan has never been one to let facts, public opinion or the potential saving of the lives of innocent civilians stand in the way of demonizing Israel. In his fading days as UN Secretary General, the ever vigilant crusader for the rights of Palestinians to murder Jews has found yet another way to divert even more UN resources to the Palestinian international propaganda campaign. He is initiating an office to collect data and testimonies on damages caused by the separation fence to Palestinians in the West Bank. This "Register of Damage" is to be set up in Vienna, and is intended to serve possible future international adjudication. The office would simply collect and register claims, without any evaluation or assessment of the loss or damage claimed. "The office of the Register of Damage would not be a compensation commission nor a claims-resolution facility, nor would it be a judicial or quasi-judicial body," said Anan, adding that "Israel also has an obligation to compensate, in accordance with the applicable rules of international law, all natural or legal persons having suffered any form of material damage as a result of the wall's construction." 

It would be naïve to ask what data collection Annan is undertaking to create a "Register of Damage" caused by Palestinian terror against Israeli civilians. It would be laughable to expect the UN to prepare a mechanism for potential compensation from the international funders and institutions (including the UN) who underwrote that terror for years.

Needless to say, if the Palestinians stopped the violent and criminal attacks against Israeli civilians, there would be no data to collect. There would be no damage to record. There would be no fence. Instead, there would be a basis for the peace that every Israeli yearns for. If only Annan would use UN influence and resources to resolve the Middle East dispute, instead of perpetuating it.

I guess, if confronted, the Secretary General might just paraphrase Douste-Blazy. how much traffic is going to my site


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[info]dfrankfurter

December 5 2006, 01:56:12 UTC 5 years ago

The British Church Newspaper

A slightly edited version of this article appeared in the British Church Newspaper.

Anonymous

December 5 2006, 16:47:41 UTC 5 years ago

Prove that the barrier works

Hi David,

The security barrier is often cited as being an effective anti-terror tool, but only individual stories are told -- nothing credible or scientific to suggest that the barrier is actually effective against terror in any reasonable proportion to the horrific hardship it imposes on Palestinians.

In fact, illegal Palestinian workers pass through the Wall daily with little problems. A suicide bomber could very likely do the same if he so chose. Hamas has refrained from suicide bombings for over two years -- has not even tried. (Islamic Jihad has tried, and unfortunately succeeded, about three times in that time.)

Furthermore, the next phase of the conflict will obviously involve rockets, which are easier to build and deploy and do not automatically kill the user or result in as much worldwide condemnation. A Wall provides absolutely no protection against these -- look at Gaza, which is vacuum-sealed.

Finally, if you want to make an anti-terror barrier, that's absolutely your prerogative -- AS LONG AS YOU DO IT ON YOUR OWN LAND, NOT SOMEONE ELSE'S. Imagine if America were building its barrier on the Mexican border TWENTY KILOMETERS INSIDE MEXICAN TERRITORY. (The barrier around Ariel pushes almost to the midpoint of the West Bank, which is only 50 km wide.)

Bottom line, if there is no justice, there will be no peace. And the Wall represents one of the most spiteful, horrific injustices any modern people has faced -- I have spoken with black South Africans who visited the West Bank and were absolutely appalled, because the occupation there is in some ways worse than what they endured under Apartheid. Imagine if the Palestinians were able to shut you up in ghettoes and steal your land for the alleged potential crimes of a tiny minority. For shame.

Shalom,

Pamelagulf at yahoo

[info]dfrankfurter

December 5 2006, 19:46:28 UTC 5 years ago

Re: Prove that the barrier works

Now THERE'S a challenge. Prove that the securiy fence works. From your tone, I am sure that you won't accept any proof - anecdotal or statistical from Israeli sources. Yes they are there - 80%+ decrease in attacks. Numbers of attempted attacks thwarted etc. etc. Enough to convince the French Foreign Minister to do a 180 degree policy switch.

So, what do the Palestinians say? Let's listen toNow THERE'S a challenge. Prove that the securiy fence works. from your tone, I am sure that you won't accept any proof - anecdotal or statistical from Isreli sources. Yes they are there - 80% decrease in attacks. Numbers of attempted attacks thwarted etc. etc.

So, what do the Palestinians say? Let's listen to Palestinian Islamic Jihad leader, Ramadan Shalah. When interviewed on Al-Manar, he publicly admitted that Israel’s security fence is an important obstacle to the terrorist organizations, and that “if it weren’t there, the situation would be entirely different.” The PIJ has carried out the greatest number of suicide bombing attacks during the past few years.

Notice that he does not suggest, as you do, that there is a lessened desire to commit war crimes against innocent civilians. Just that the fence is in the way.

Here's the link: http://www.intelligence.org.il/eng/eng_n/html/pij151106e.htm

And as far as where to put it - in order to protect my children, it goes wherever the army says it will work best.

And as soon as the attempts at terror completely cease - then lets pull it down!

David

Anonymous

December 5 2006, 20:51:16 UTC 5 years ago

Re: Prove that the barrier works

Hi David,

Thanks for that -- it is better than your one data point above. But it is still not convincing to anyone other than people who already believe the way you believe. You say there has been an 80% decrease in attacks, and I think the decrease is actually much larger than that. But I do not think it is due primarily to the barrier. (You also cite no source for either the decrease in attacks or the reason, you merely state them again. I could state anything I wanted, but without a reasonable source, I could be merely blowing hot air or repeating propaganda I heard somewhere.)

Suicide attacks from Hamas ceased when they unilaterally declared a ceasefire against Israeli civilians in August 2004 (despite the fact that Israel continues to harass all Palestinians will checkpoints, raids, bombings, closures, assassinations that kill bystanders, and the horrible land-grabbing barrier). They did this for their own reasons, perhaps as a bid to try and achieve political legitimacy. Islamic Jihad declared no such ceasefire, and they have been able to get through seven times. Is this significantly less than they did before the Wall? (I believe Hamas was the main perpetrator before the Wall.) How many IJ attacks were thwarted in that time vs. the number that were thwarted before the Wall? If you have this information, I will be more convinced.

And it is laughable that you ask, "So, what do the Palestinians say?" And then you quote only one person, who represents one marginal faction! Do you not understand that there are Palestinians of all stripes, not just Islamic Jihadists? This would be like me saying, "So, what do the Israelis say?" and quoting only a Kahane Chai member! It reflects ignorance, if not racism.

There is no doubt that the barrier changes the situation, as the IJ man noted. But the question is, how?

By the way, have you noticed that most of the violent attacks on Israel for the past year have come out of the Gaza Strip, despite (because of?) the fact that it is completely enclosed in a Wall, shut off from the outside world, and brutalized beyond belief? 1 + 1 = ...

(Continued...)

Anonymous

December 5 2006, 20:51:44 UTC 5 years ago

Re: Prove that the barrier works

You have a perfect right to protect your children, your friends, your loved ones, your country, your home, and your property. But so do Palestinians. And when you steal all of those things from other people (as well as their hope for a dignified future), you would be mad not to expect resistance. What I say may sound extreme, but to give you just one example of what a Palestinian friend of mine has gone through, she has had her father repeatedly beaten by Israeli soldiers, her apartment block bulldozed, her ankle grazed by an Israeli bullet, one of her childhood friends shot and killed by an Israeli sniper, and another friend tortured in Israeli jail when he was 14. I could go on and on. This story is typical -- I have heard many that were much worse. Perhaps you are thinking, "Well, she must have deserved it!" But it would be irrational to assume every Palestinian who had terrible violence done to him or her had it coming, and it is demonstrably at odds with reality as reported by many reputable Israeli organizations.

You have it backwards, I'm afraid. The Palestinians will not surrender to your dictates no matter how brutally you treat them. It didn't work in Algeria or Vietnam and it won't work here. Palestinians will only participate in a full, legal, negotiated, dignified peace. Shutting them in ghettoes and killing hundreds of them, at least half civilians and 20% children, will not bring you peace or security.

I have friends in Israel whom I care about, which is why I hate to see Isreali extremists torment the Palestinians into desperate and cruel acts. There will always be haters, psychopaths, and terrorists in every society. But the way to decrease their number is not to imprison entire towns and villages and bomb and bulldoze family homes and cars. Cutting the hands off of thieves is more appropriate punishment than the horrors Israel inflicts indiscriminately on Palestinians.

Finally, please keep in mind that your military establishment, like mine in America, doesn't always tell you the truth or work in your best interest. Democracies need alert citizens, not people who blindly accept everything their government and military elites tell them.

(You have also completely failed to address issues of proportionality -- the cornerstone of Western justice, and the reason we believe cutting off the hands of thieves is barbaric -- or how any of this will help once the West Bank resistance moves to rocket attacks, which is inevitable if Israel continues to sabotage genuine hopes for a just and dignified peace. See for example: http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/795406.html)

Shalom,
Pamela

Anonymous

December 5 2006, 21:12:04 UTC 5 years ago

Re: Prove that the barrier works

P.S. For more from the perspective of Palestinians and those who live among them, see my blog at:

http://www.pamolson.org/LettersPalestine.htm

And the Bethlehem blog at:

http://bethlehemghetto.blogspot.com/

I'm not saying that these are 100% correct, and they are certainly not balanced. But they may help balance your views a little. There are two sides to every story. It is rarely as simple as "We are the forces of goodness and light and they are nothing but monsters and maniacs." People who blindly dehumanize others become monsters and destroy themselves.

The event that defines my moral universe is the horrific extremism, dehumanization, and bigotry that led to the Holocaust, probably the most unthinkable act of human history. Dehumanization is dangerous for us all. It is a slippery slope to hell. The Middle East doesn't have to be an abyss. War is easy on the ego. Peace, on the other hand, requires courage, introspection, and humility.

Shalom,
Pamela

P.P.S. I have to admit that I can't help but get a little emotional when I talk about these issues because my friends in Palestine are being treated so badly, it is really beyond my imagination even though I have seen many examples of it with my own eyes. I myself was hit by a stun grenade tossed by an Israeli soldier into a non-violent anti-Wall demonstration in which Israeli activists were marching side by side with Palestinians. And that's utter peanuts compared to, for example, two friends of mine who were deliberately shot in the back by Israeli soldiers while they were unarmed and looking the other way. If they had posed a threat, which they didn't, couldn't the soldiers have shot them in the leg or something?

You are shielded from seeing the results of IDF actions on the West Bank and Gaza, but if you did, I know your humanity would be touched. These are human beings, and (needless to say) they love their children like everyone else. Suicide bombings are horrific and unjustifiable, but they were not the first cause here. Read Thomas Friedman's From Beirut to Jerusalem, or anything by Benny Morris, Norman Finkelstein, or Ilan Pappe.

I'm sure you are fond of saying that Palestinians will never get peace as long as they practice only violence and blind hatred. I would pose the same challenge to you. (Settlement expansion represents a horrific act of violence, because no one can steal someone else's land in broad daylight without using real or implied violence.) America is not an island, and neither is Israel. Unless we find some way to integrate with the world around us, we will destroy ourselves (and take many innocents down with us).

Anonymous

December 10 2006, 20:39:40 UTC 5 years ago

Re: Prove that the barrier works

Pamela,

Your righteous indignation notwithstanding, your insistence on equating the behavior of Israelis and Palestinians is morally objectionable.

To respond to just a few of your points:

1. It does not matter whether you can scientifically "prove" the security fence is effective. The whole reason it was built was to save Israeli lives. If there had been no terrorism, there would be no fence. So what if the evidence for its effectiveness is "anecdotal"? What do you want, a double-blind study? The examples you give that criticize Israel are also anecdotal. Why hold the Israeli side to a higher standard than you practice yourself?

2. As for "stealing" Palestinian land, Israel did not "steal" the land. Israel's presence in the territories resulted from fighting a defensive war. You neglect to mention that not only has Israel withdrawn from all its Gaza settlements, it also wants to give up the bulk of its settlements in the West Bank, but cannot do so for security reasons. If Gaza is a precedent, a similar withdrawal from the West Bank would at this time place Israel in mortal danger.

The term "stealing" deserves further attention, because it has become a disingenuous but effective propaganda slogan. Palestinians accuse Israel of having "stolen" ALL of the land, not just the "occupied territories." There is no way Israel can redress the Palestinian grievance of "stolen" land without ceasing to exist.

3. The claim that the Palestinians will make peace if Israel would only negotiate with them has no basis in fact. In spite of attempts to rewrite history, the Palestinians have repeatedly rejected reasonable offers of peace, most notably at Camp David - and before disputing this, please find the details here:
http://www.peacewithrealism.org/pdc/campdave.htm

4. Calling Palestinian areas "ghettos" is both a slander of Israel and an insult to history. There is no similarity to the ghettos of Europe. Furthermore, if anyone has "ghettoized" the Palestinians, it is their fellow Arabs, who have refused to absorb them and have kept them in squalid refugee camps. In sharp contrast, Israel has absorbed the Jewish refugees from Arab lands, who do not devote their lives to playing the victim.

You sympathize with Palestinians who are suffering, and that is commendable. I would like to meet you on the common ground of lamenting the suffering of any human being. But I cannot do so when you repeatedly make flawed analogies that falsify past and present history and that serve to excuse Palestinian abuses. You have made it sound as if Israel is on a campaign to murder Palestinian civilians, when Israel actually takes measures to avoid civilian casualties while the Palestinians try to kill as many civilians as they can. I know that innocent Palestinians also have suffered, as happens in any war. I would like to join you in your feelings for them. But when you keep misrepresenting the facts, you keep me at a distance.

Carlos
http://www.peacewithrealism.org/

Anonymous

December 8 2006, 08:11:50 UTC 5 years ago

Palestinian rigfhts and Pam

I think that Pam has a point about rights for Palestinians.

When the Palestinian Independent Commission for Citizens' Rights - part of the PA - reports that in 2006, there have already been 41 political murders and the murder of women and children has increased, then that is an unacceptable judicial sitution.

When the IMF and the World Bank report that the Palestinians have received since 1993 and continue to receive over US1 billion in direct and indirect aid, and yet many still remain poor, you have got to wonder which Palestinian oligarchs are creaming of the top.

And when Pamela notes that Israelis and Palestinains march together against Israeli policies, yet you never hear of Palestinains protesting against PA or Hamas policies - without getting shot - you have got to wonder what sort of freedom Hamas and Fatah have in mind for a future Palestine.

Pamela is also correct. A wall or a barrier is not fair. By definition, it divides. What she forgets is the context; before the Palestinian leadership launched their violence on Israeli civilians, there was no barrier. Simple

And yes Pamela, you may well be right ot be excited about this subject, but so are Israelis when they are trying to survive. You may argue the same about Palestinains, but nothing gives them the right to use terror. Nothing!

The solution is simple - get back to the peace table. Israel made a gesture last year in withdrawing from Gaza. That land has neither been used to grow the vegetables under greenhouses bought with Jewish money for the Palestinians. Nor civilians been moved out of rerugee camps. The previous Israelistowns are now training camps for Hams etc.

The Palestinians have to sort out their own internal differences and get back to the peace table...for their own good and the good of all.

Anonymous

December 8 2006, 12:44:14 UTC 5 years ago

Re: Palestinian rigfhts and Pam

The proof of the wall's effectiveness is the volume of protest from Palestinians and their supporters, particularly those from Pam.

Janet

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